VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 4: Cix Liv
Welcome to a brand new episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!
Be part of us as we welcome Cix Liv of LIV, YUR and REK. He’s a digital health pioneer utilizing XR applied sciences to enhance the world of sports activities and health.
Subscribe on Apple Podcasts | Subscribe on Spotify
Transcript:
Episode 4 – Cix Liv
Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that can revolutionize the best way the world will play sports activities, work out and get match together with your hosts. Preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field vr, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR gymnasium and convey a long time of expertise from creating among the largest health know-how firms on the earth.
They’re bringing collectively the very best and brightest minds that will help you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.
Alright. Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. We have now a VR, AR, XR guru and pioneer right here with us right now, Cix Liv. Cix, thanks for being right here.
Cix Liv: Thanks. Thanks a lot.
Preston Lewis: So why don’t we begin off, with you simply giving our viewers a fast intro into who you might be and your background.
Cix Liv: The story of San Francisco, why I got here up right here is definitely a humorous one. I’ll inform it actual rapidly. After I initially got here to the West coast, I used to be initially from the Midwest. I used to be from Minnesota, [00:01:00] Colorado, Minnesota.
And what introduced me to the West Coast is I used to be promoting laptop {hardware}, and I saved delivery it again to a spot known as Metropolis of Business. I heard that title and I used to be, like, “wow.” You already know, like, Metropolis of Business, proper? I used to be simply so fucking bored with how chilly the Midwest was, and I might all the time joke with my mates that sometime I’m gonna get in a automobile, I’m gonna drive to the West Coast and also you’re by no means gonna see my ass once more. And I did that. I did that sooner or later, and I confirmed up in Metropolis of Business, which is outdoors of Los Angeles, and it’s simply, the warehouses, proper?
Yeah, I confirmed up there and I used to be like dwelling in a fucking warehouse. Undoubtedly not like a heat starting to California. However really that’s after I began calling myself Cix. So, it isn’t my start title. My start title is totally different. I believe lots of people, once they make big life choices, they often wish to change themselves and who they have been and every part. And Cix was my on-line [00:02:00] id.
However yeah, a brief story about why I got here as much as San Francisco is I used to be working in know-how, in a rudimentary sense. I didn’t perceive all of the tech lingo and all this VC nonsense that we now have up right here. However I used to be in California on the time and I heard about this app known as Yo. And it was a push notification app, and all of the app did was if you press your pal’s title and it will do a push notification and stated, “yo”. And that raised tens of millions of {dollars}. And I used to be like, “I don’t know what the fuck they’re smoking in San Francisco.”
Preston Lewis: Like a Silicon Valley, a Silicon Valley episode.
Cix Liv: They’re out of their fucking minds. Yeah, in order that’s why got here as much as San Francisco, and now I’ve been caught right here for eight years. However, that’s the story of how I made up right here “I used to be like, wow, these guys are nuts.” And I would like be a part of that as a result of…
Ryan DeLuca: That’s proper. That’s superior.
Preston Lewis: I adore it was like Metropolis of Business. I might simply think about what you have been like envisioning was similar to [00:03:00] this Utopia of companies and stuff after which simply to indicate up at a warehouse is hilarious.
Cix Liv: Skyrises and I confirmed up and it’s actually simply warehouses. It’s known as Metropolis of Business, it’s the Industrial District. So positively not a rosy entrance to California, let’s put it that approach.
Preston Lewis: Sounds such as you’ve had some actually experiences in California, with the Yo app, and the street journey, and leaving all your pals behind and shifting to the Metropolis of Business. However, inform our viewers how you bought excited about VR. Uh, why’d you get excited about it? What first drew you to it?
Cix Liv: Yeah, so the primary jobs I had in San Francisco have been IT jobs. So, I used to be principally fixing shit for folks; whether or not it was firms or excessive internet value folks. I mounted one of many co-founders of Google’s, like private Wi-Fi.
I arrange Justin Kahn’s Wi-Fi. He most likely doesn’t know that I used to be that Taskrabbit dude establishing his fucking Wi-Fi, however you already know, sometime, [00:04:00] sometime I’ll inform that story.
Ryan DeLuca: Nonetheless have his password?
Cix Liv: Humble first, uh, beginnings right here. So, however my background was very totally different than loads of tech folks in San Francisco. A whole lot of tech folks in San Francisco have been engaged on cell purposes, and SaaS merchandise and issues like that. They have been very deep on that finish. I used to be working in IT stuff my entire life, both on the {hardware} facet, or simply fixing stuff on a regular basis.
So I had that distinctive perspective. I received into VR, as a result of I used to be working as an IT man and I received entry to the DK2. So I wasn’t OG sufficient to say DK1. Sadly, I wasn’t that early into VR. So I received the DK2 and I used to be attempting it out and I used to be like, “that is actually fucking cool”, however it wasn’t fairly sufficient to get me to commit my life to it.
I attempted among the experiences the place I used to be sitting down utilizing a controller and I used to be shifting my head round. I used to be like, “yeah, that is fairly cool.” The racing stuff, I actually received into. However then I received entry to the Vive Pre, you already know, the dev equipment earlier than the VIVE got here out. I received the Vive [00:05:00] Pre and I had an early construct of a Area Pirate Coach, and I used to be enjoying it in the lounge.
So after I moved to San Francisco, I used to be dwelling with fifty folks on this co-living, type of hippie-ish factor the place like folks would come collectively to attempt to survive the outrageous prices of dwelling in San Francisco. They’d cook dinner one another meals and stuff. So I lived with fifty fucking folks after I got here to San Francisco.
Ryan DeLuca: And it wasn’t a bunch of homeless tents. It was really a spot
Cix Liv: Undoubtedly very humble beginnings after I got here to San Francisco. However I had the Vive Pre and I set it up in the lounge there, and I performed Area Pirate Coach. And I keep in mind a second the place I used to be taking pictures out the drones. And a drone shot at me, and the laser was coming in direction of me, and each single second in my gaming life previous to this… I’ve been obsessive about video video games my complete life. I like to inform those that video video games raised me greater than my dad and mom did. Which, I don’t know in the event that they’re gonna respect me saying that publicly, however Zelda raised me greater than my dad. [00:06:00] We’re not gonna get too far into that.
However, I had this second. The laser’s coming in direction of me, and each single a part of my gamer mind is pondering, press down on the thumbs stick and that is the way you’re gonna dodge it. However then I used to be like, wait a second, my physique is the controller. And I did certainly one of these Matrix strikes, I went like again like this and the laser went over me, and I got here again and it was like, fuck.
That’s the way forward for gaming. I’m the controller now. Holy shit, you already know? And it was just like the convergence of every part that I believed in as a human being, about personifying your personal new id, about physicality and about video video games all coming collectively.
That excellent connection of who I used to be. And that’s what received me into the area.
Ryan DeLuca: I believe all of us have that second, proper in VR, in fact everybody does like Richie’s Plank Expertise and “oh, I really really feel like I used to be falling.”
And like, if you actually [00:07:00] understand that you just really really feel such as you’re there. And I believe it makes whole sense that video video games all the time have been a controller or keypad the place you’re pondering that you’re really in that world and pretending that you just’re that character.
You’re clearly totally faraway from it on a flat display. And it’s the dream that we all the time needed. We all the time pretended we have been that factor after which unexpectedly VR , now you might be in there, such as you stated. Like the primary time you even have to maneuver and also you don’t wanna transfer, since you’re probably not positive the place you’re at in actual area, however then when you do it, it’s fairly magical.
Preston Lewis: Area Pirate coach was superb for its time. It was one of many earlier titles and I nonetheless assume they’ve among the finest graphics and mechanics in there.
Cix Liv: Yeah, it was unbelievable. I believe the primary recreation that may get the crown for the primary health recreation in VR, I might say might be Audio Defend.
Audio Defend was one thing that our CTO at Liv completely liked. It wasn’t seen as like a really apparent use case to start with of digital actuality.
You’re sporting this factor in your face, why do you wanna run round, too? Like, even Carmack, even John Carmack, the CTO of Oculus on the time, he wasn’t satisfied in any respect on [00:08:00] lively motion in VR. He’s like, “why the fuck would I placed on a headset and run round”, you already know?
Ryan DeLuca: Persons are gonna wanna sit down. And even the primary expertise with the Oculus, it was like an Xbox controller and it was the 2 cameras in entrance, when you solely had two. You couldn’t even transfer all the best way, uh, in a circle. And so it did appear to make sense. And we now have the identical story, like, we heard him say that.
After which now in fact he’s speaking about exercising in VR on a regular basis with Beat Saber.
Cix Liv: The final time I see him, he’s received the forearms and every part’s, like, these are Beat Saber arms, you already know?
Preston Lewis: “These are Beat Saber arms”, that’s superior.
Ryan DeLuca: In order that then led you into beginning firms within the XR area. First one being Liv. You wanna inform us a bit bit about co-founding that and the way that went and what you realized from that?
Cix Liv: You already know, I used to be tremendous excited about VR, after which there was this co-working area in San Francisco known as Add, which it was an incredible place for folks to come back collectively.
I do know there’s been controversy about Add, however I had loads of constructive experiences there. [00:09:00] Particularly with some members of the staff. The man who accepted me to be a part of this co-living area was a man named Oz. Ozran all of the combined actuality stuff on the location.
And after I met Oz, he had this inexperienced display room and he was doing combined actuality the place he was placing folks within the recreation and displaying everyone outdoors of VR what it was prefer to be in VR. And after I noticed him doing that, it answered one of many largest elementary issues that we had in our area, which was , “what the fuck are you doing?” Proper? In the event you see somebody in a headset and so they’re sitting down and so they’re similar to, going like this, like the primary inclination lots of people had is “are they watching porn?” Like, what the fuck are they doing in that headset? You already know? Um…
Ryan DeLuca: And it turned out fifty % of the time, that was true.
Cix Liv: In your VR. I might say that was most likely true. Let’s be trustworthy. However you already know, once we moved to love full physique monitoring, when you have been to have a look at somebody enjoying Beat Saber and never have any context in any respect, proper?
You’d be like, “what?” Like, “is that this individual tripping balls or [00:10:00] one thing?” ” What the hell are they doing?” However then if you took the digital world and also you, and also you confirmed folks the context of what was taking place, it went from dorky to chill.
And I’m a powerful believer that know-how shifts occur if you make one thing dorky, cool. It’s so simple as that. And so, when you take a look at the evolution of electrical vehicles, Elon Musk actually known as his line “horny”. Proper? As a result of, electrical vehicles as much as that have been like sensible vehicles and stuff like that, the place everyone thought electrical vehicles have been fucking dorky. Proper?
And so one of many massive issues that I all the time take a look at on this area is, how will we make this cool? After which Zuckerberg is available in there and makes it essentially the most dorky shit on the earth? Anyway. Little little bit of a tangent, however Liv was capable of talk one thing that was inherently dorky and make it cool. And in addition enable folks a window into VR, so you may see what the individual was doing in actual time.
And so, Ozwas doing this. I used to be like, “that is superb.” [00:11:00] After which how will we create a product out of this? And in order that turned the large query. A number of the those that I used to reside with on this fifty individual co-op had moved into their very own house. Their names have been AJ and Pierre.
So that they have been my two mates. I like went to them and I principally co-oped their front room into a giant combined actuality inexperienced display. And I used to be sleeping on the sofa and like setting this up of their front room. And we simply received obsessive about it. I like to think about it type of like, you already know, as youngsters you’d report your self in a cassette participant and fake you have been radio jockeys or one thing?
I really feel like we have been type of having that second the place we had this inexperienced display after which AJ went in there with an excellent saiyan hat on, and there was this recreation the place you may have mini weapons. It was known as Sirius Sam. And he had this video the place he would go in and he had mini weapons in his arm and he had an excellent saiyan factor.
It was simply us doing ridiculous stuff. And AJ had [00:12:00] expertise within the startups, extra instantly and the best way to communicate to buyers and no matter. And we received into Techstars from there. And, Liv is doing fairly nicely proper now. I believe they only raised eight and a half million, and that’s the story of Liv.
Ryan DeLuca: That’s so true what you’re saying although, it’s so obscure what persons are doing contained in the headset. And when you see it even on a flat display, it might probably even actually be troublesome. We wrestle with that loads of Black Field. Like how do you present folks? We nonetheless do, how do you present folks what you’re doing?
And we create some totally different type of inexperienced display sort of environments, however it’s simply so troublesome and such a giant drawback that Liv with fixing, which remains to be an issue and other people nonetheless wrestle with that, however simply how nice it’s been to see what Liv has executed to, to assist with that.
Cix Liv: I want they might make like a one click on combined actuality associate with a digital camera firm, and simply press the button and go for it. However, uh…
Ryan DeLuca: It’s coming, it’ll come out ultimately.
Preston Lewis: Yeah, to piggyback on that, one of many cool issues that we actually respect you doing all through your profession to this point has been taking this platform strategy to constructing your tasks and merchandise. And yeah, the entire business has massively [00:13:00] benefited from these efforts. I most likely enterprise to guess that Liv is perhaps the primary piece of software program used for combined actuality movies. And I’d most likely say it’s most, if not all, of the viral VR movies have been most likely made with Liv software program as nicely.
Black Field VR, once we first used your software program, we noticed folks lastly perceive, like “oh, wait a minute, you’re in an enviornment” and “oh, wait a minute, you’re interacting with a machine and also you’re doing health actions?” And so, actually big due to you and your staff for doing that, as a result of I believe it’s been superior for the business.
Cix Liv: Yeah. The Beat Saber stuff was a loopy story.
We have been working with somebody who’s a fireplace spinner, her title was Swan. So the story of the viral occasion with Beat Saber, I don’t know if I’ll ever have an occasion like that earlier than, like, some folks say “viral” once they have like 1,000,000 views or one thing. This shit hit a billion views, like globally throughout every part. There was one video on Fb that hit 200 million by itself. That degree of virality I’ve by no means seen earlier than, and it occurred to me. [00:14:00] We have been simply creating movies and it was normally simply me, or simply some folks I do know, and I positively amp it up, however, you already know, males in video video games and stuff, nothing tremendous novel about that.
So I had a pal named Swan and he or she went in there and he or she was similar to recording movies of herself. And we weren’t even pondering an entire lot about it, we have been similar to recording these movies after which posted it to YouTube. The primary one she had the place she had like a Jedi outfit on, after which the video that went viral was the second that we posted on YouTube. And it began taking off a bit bit, however nothing like outrageous. I fell asleep, and I awakened and I appeared down my telephone, it was like 300 notifications and I used to be like, “what the fuck is occurring?” And I opened it up, it was like, you’re on Sport Cease, and also you’re on the entrance of that and in every single place.
They’d taken our fucking video, and we had a watermark on the underside proper, and so they had similar to, blurred it out. I might name that second the [00:15:00] shopper occasion of VR. Earlier than then we have been like early adopters that thought this geeky stuff was cool, however at that second it broke out of that restricted market that we had, as a result of movies can attain everybody. I’ll all the time do not forget that second. It was positively a mixture of a bunch of issues. And you already know, the largest studying that I had from Liv, that I take to the subsequent firms after, which is vital for this podcast, was that physicality was so important to speaking to folks why VR was fascinating. As a result of anytime that we had combined actuality or a video of somebody like sitting there doing one thing, nobody gave a shit. However if you had added physicality and other people have been like dancing and concerned within the content material, it will, it will carry out like 100 instances higher.
The best way that I like to consider that’s the distinction between a film and a play. So in a play, you’re not essentially seeing the facial actions of somebody. You’re type of like eliminated and farther [00:16:00] away. Um, so you need to be loud and expressive. And since our face is roofed and also you’re not like speaking, you already know, the nuances of your face, you need to use physique language.
And it’s the identical factor that occurs in sports activities, proper? Like if you watch a sport, you’re not their face, you’re their physique, proper? And so the largest studying from Liv that received me into understanding the significance of physicality past my very own ardour with it, was nobody gave a shit in regards to the content material if folks weren’t lively, they only didn’t care. They have been like, okay, somebody’s being dorky in a headset. No. You already know, I don’t care.
Ryan DeLuca: It’s such a very good level. Yeah. I imply, simply the best way you set it, the physicality. And folks like to observe folks doing bodily actions, proper? And sports activities and health. And so it’s simply this excellent mixture of that Beat Saber video got here out. I believe all of us have been a bit bit shocked. “What is that this factor with, like, it’s one thing to do with lightsabers and music?” Yeah, it was simply in every single place. After which that’s once we had our non- early adopter or non- VR like professional [00:17:00] mates asking us about it. Like, “oh, that’s like recreation with the lightsabers”, you already know? And it’s like everyone knew about it.
Cix Liv: Yeah.
Preston Lewis: I believe Beat Saber owes you some royalties.
Cix Liv: I used to be in there serving to them lots with advertising and marketing within the early days. I believe that the success of Beat Saber, was not essentially simply Beat Saber itself. It launched with only some songs, six to seven songs. It was the content material that made it fascinating, after which there was a really giant modding group that got here out of it of about 4 hundred thousand folks. And that modding group made it, so that they principally took the bottom fundamentals of Beat Saber and allowed you to place no matter tune you needed in there. And I believe realistically, if it weren’t for these movies, after which subsequently that modding Discord to keep up its relevance.
After which the ultimate piece of that was that it turned the flagship for the Quest. I believe these have been the three massive, like, moments that you may say that related to the success of Beat Saber. Each, six to 9 months, there was one thing that hit proper on the proper time. It was an enormous quantity of luck [00:18:00] concerned, to be trustworthy. That preliminary launch was completely timed; the sport got here out, with a bunch of fanfare and all these movies; after which it turned the most important VR discord on the earth of lots of of 1000’s of individuals.
They really needed to begin kicking folks out, as a result of it went over Discord’s restrict. Had been creating mods with like totally different swords and songs and no matter. And that received across the copyright difficulty the place most builders needed to license each single tune, which will get extremely costly. So they’d this entire group primarily making infinite content material.
After which the ultimate piece of that’s when it got here out on the Quest, it transformed so nicely to the Quest and, it didn’t have among the points that among the different VR video games had. Like Survios, for instance, couldn’t port loads of their video games to the Quest due to the constancy that was essential to port it.
So there have been loads of builders who created actually superb experiences who had a extremely laborious time porting it right down to the Quest. So there have been like three [00:19:00] massive issues that basically pushed the success of Beat Saber to the purpose the place it hit fifty % machine penetration of the whole VR market. It was on over fifty % of all headsets on the earth, which was…
Preston Lewis: Wow.
Cix Liv: That’s nuts. That’s nuts.
Ryan DeLuca: It, it’s humorous you say that, as a result of it’s so true. Like, the customized content material, the customized songs, like, that was the very best half about it, proper? It’s like, there was so many various songs and maps, like countless quantity, proper? And you may discover any songs that you just favored and all types of loopy stuff.
And naturally folks would charge the very best ones. You’d be taught new songs. There’s so many, a lot music that I had simply realized about that I’d by no means even heard about, that now I’m a fan of by way of that. And to me, that’s what sort of ruined it when it went to Quest, as a result of it was an ideal expertise for Quest, as a result of wi-fi, you already know, as a result of I used to be all the time planning on the Vive or the, or the Index. However going to wi-fi was simply so nice, you already know, and so they even made the 360 modes and stuff.
However, you already know, it type of leads into the subsequent factor is, the most effective components about Beat Saber being the flagship recreation, that turned like actually the primary mainstream recreation that launched folks to VR, was the factor we all the time hear, proper? “Hey, I’ve tried this Beat Saber recreation. It was tremendous enjoyable, [00:20:00] I liked it. After which I spotted I’m exercising.” Like, it might have been another VR recreation that wasn’t actually an lively recreation that turned the primary massive one, however the truth that the primary massive one had such an train cardio element to it, was additionally actually good for displaying health as a strong approach to make use of VR.
So, inform us about YUR that led you into your subsequent massive factor, your subsequent firm.
Cix Liv: Yeah, so, I needed to depart Liv for varied causes. One of many causes was, is the staff principally turned European primarily based and, I had a tough time with the thought of like, shifting to the Czech Republic.
You already know, I hadn’t began an organization pondering I must transfer to the Czech Republic. So I made some choices to make sure that, like, my departure can be okay for the corporate, and AJ turned the CEO, which was, you already know, my roommate approach again then. However I used to be itching to, do one thing once more immediately.
In hindsight, I most likely ought to have taken a bit little bit of a break, going straight from, startup 200 miles an hour to a different 200 miles an hour, type of breaks you. However, I [00:21:00] strongly believed in VR health and previous to that I’ve been working a bit bit with the VR Well being Institute with Aaron, uh, Stanton? Yeah. So, I’ll give him credit score. He noticed VR Health as changing into a giant factor, and I used to be looking for a approach to work with him. And I’ll say this, we have been looking for a approach to work collectively, however he strongly believed within the efficacy of every part to love an Nth diploma.
Like, we have to have it peer reviewed. We have to have coronary heart charge trackers which can be validated by no matter. I used to be like, dude, “we simply gotta show to those that persons are fucking exercising.” I used to be attempting to determine a approach to work with him. He didn’t wish to co-found it with me.
He’s most likely a bit mad at me now, no matter, like, shit occurs within the startup world. However I made a decision to not work with him as a result of, he didn’t wish to be a co-founder with me and he was so centered on efficacy of every part. And for me, having constructed a shopper firm earlier than, proving in any respect that persons are doing one thing with the least friction attainable is the way you construct a shopper firm, proper?
So my thesis [00:22:00] was, okay, we’re gonna transfer in direction of a headset that’s not tethered. I believe health is gonna be certainly one of, if not the largest use case. Folks would snort at my fucking face. Even Aaron had the identical expertise; like, folks thought we have been a joke, proper? He tells the story about how he was attempting to show to those that VR is health and other people would inform him, “no, you’re simply scared, that’s why your coronary heart charge is excessive.” You already know, like zombies are after you. That’s why your coronary heart charge is excessive. It’s not since you’re exercising, it’s since you’re afraid of what’s occurring. I’m fucking exercising, man. He was attempting to show to those that it was a factor.
I didn’t should be proved, I believed in it, proper? However I used to be simply, I used to be looking for, you already know, how will we create a shopper product out of this? I began pondering, okay nicely, let’s attempt to remedy this in a approach that’s the least friction attainable.
I’m quick forwarding a bit bit right here.
So, one other individual that basically believed in VR health, there weren’t many by the best way. I keep in mind a gathering that I had with Oculus throughout [00:23:00] OC-6, the place I inform them, I stated, “hey, VR Health is gonna be a giant factor.” They nearly fucking laughed me out of the room. They have been like, “what are you speaking about?”
And I believe that is primarily on account of the truth that the best way Fb determines product worth is predicated off present metrics that they’ll go right into a PM assembly and say, “hey, that is taking place, we must always do this too.” They’ve a really troublesome time with foresight, and I believe culturally that’s the largest drawback with Fb, is that they solely function on present information and so they don’t have the foresight to see how one thing can evolve into one thing.
And so, I had that have the place they nearly like laughed me out of a room for pitching VR Health. Anyway, there was one different man who lived in San Francisco who believed in VR Health, and his title was Dylan.
I met up with Dylan and I used to be like, “dude, VR health is a factor.” I didn’t should persuade him it was a factor. And that was one of many largest points that I had with co-founding this firm, is I might go to folks and so they’d be like, “VR health, [00:24:00] what are you speaking about?”
So Dylan, I didn’t should persuade him. And so we began, YUR from that. And we received into Increase, which was an accelerator right here in San Mateo. Principally it was simply because I believe Adam Draper favored me, and he, you already know, like, if I’m gonna be actual, I believe that’s what occurred. He was like “Cix, I don’t know what the fuck you’re doing, man, however I’m a wager on you.” You already know, a kind of issues, proper? like Dylan hadn’t even dedicated to being within the firm by then. So I got here again to Dylan and I stated, “hey, if you wish to do that, we’re in Increase now, we now have a bit bit of cash.”
So, we needed to create the least friction approach to get entangled on this. So our very first product was a mod in Beat Saber. And we already had, going again to what powered Beat Saber, was this huge modding group and it type of skirted round a few of these totally different platform points that we’d have. Like, might we really combine into Beat Saber formally? Most likely not. Proper? Particularly not proper out of the gate. So, we created this mod for Beat Saber and it turned extremely profitable. We began [00:25:00] principally what YUR was, was a subset, initially, of the Beat Saber modding Discord eager to train.
And in order that group that we constructed was, initially, the bottom group, a subset of that Beat Saber modding group. And it was so fascinating, as a result of this was a demographic that nobody else ever appealed to within the health area. It was avid gamers, loads of them, tremendous unhealthy that have been exercising accidentally.
And it was nearly like Beat Saber made them really feel like, “I’ve an opportunity now to truly be match.” These have been the fellows that you just’ve seen within the memes the place they’re like consuming chips on the sofa sort. That was our foremost demographic, proper? Was youngsters who felt apathetic to even the thought of exercising.
And what it was, was a extremely good Malicious program that made folks have the arrogance that they really might begin exercising, proper? And that was the subset of the preliminary[00:26:00] group in YUR, the subset of the beat Saber modding group that realized, “hey, I can really train.” That was our preliminary product. It went extremely nicely. So then we created a Steam primarily based tracker that principally, would take your motion information and estimate very rudimentary, you already know, initially into what energy you have been burning. After which it developed right into a Quest app that you just needed to facet load. And we received a bit bit extra fancy over time the place we have been utilizing machine studying to estimate your coronary heart charge primarily based off information that we had on coronary heart charge. However, the purpose was principally to create a Fitbit that didn’t require any {hardware}. And that was type of the underlying purpose of YUR. And, yeah, it labored extremely nicely. I believe we turned the quantity two utility in Quest for a given time. Till it, uh, was de platformed.
Preston Lewis: So one query I wish to ask [00:27:00] is, simply appears like you might be very related to customers by way of these tasks and merchandise you’re constructing. Which I believe is admittedly vital for our viewers to listen to, as a result of lots of people constructing these experiences, you already know, folks strategy it from a bunch of various angles. Whether or not it’s, “hey, we now have a intestine feeling, we’re simply gonna do it”, or, “we don’t essentially want the validation as a result of we simply be ok with it.”
Seems like, from what you’ve talked about, and from what we collect, you’re the other. You in fact have the intestine feeling, however appears like you will have actually stayed near your customers all through the journey, and listened to them all through the method. So perhaps only a fast little transient hit on that, for our viewers. What would you advocate as persons are constructing the product so far as figuring out which path to go, validating the issues they’re constructing and issues like that?
Cix Liv: It’s a must to have a suggestions loop together with your customers, proper? One of many issues that I did that you may argue will not be a very good factor for a CEO to be doing, and at scale that’s true, is [00:28:00] that each single damaging assessment, I might attain out to that individual and ask them “why?” And I’d be like, okay, “so why are you leaving us a damaging assessment?”
And so they’d be like, “nicely, the UI right here sucks”, or “it’s affecting the efficiency of what I’m doing” or “I don’t assume it’s correct.” Proper? And, I chase after the those that didn’t like our product to seek out out why they didn’t like our product, as an alternative of simply being like, “oh, man, I’m so unhappy folks don’t like what we’re doing.” Proper? I assume the distinction between me and a few individuals who work in tech, is I get punched within the face and I simply see it as that is what I’m doing. Proper? If you begin an organization, when you don’t wish to be punched within the face, get a fucking day job, trustworthy to God. Go get a fucking day job. And if the worst factor that’s gonna occur to you is your supervisor is gonna be upset at you, that’s a very good day. You guys know this, like, when you wanna be a founder, you will have to have the ability to like get punched within the face each fucking day and do it once more. One of many lowest factors I’ve ever had, a bit little bit of a tangent right here, is I pitched [00:29:00] throughout Techstars, and that is again earlier than anyone actually cared an entire lot about VR. And I gave this massive impassionate speech on why I consider digital actuality is gonna be the long run.
And it was like, oh, I felt so good about myself. And the second I ended, an investor raised their hand. And he goes, “the second you stated VR I cease listening.” And I’m like, “man, fuck you, dude.” Like, what’s that? Such as you discredit a complete class. Like, I don’t care. Fuck off, man.
Ryan DeLuca: It’s type of loopy, we see the identical factor. Like VCs, loads of instances buyers, they all the time discuss their future pondering visionaries, they wanna be part of like issues that folks haven’t seen but. However if you actually speak to ’em about one thing that isn’t already mainstream or massive or that everyone else is already investing into, you’re proper, it simply doesn’t actually compute to them. And it’s the identical factor, such as you stated, with like massive firms. I might say it’s not simply Fb, it’s nearly all massive firms. Like, they need information that proves it, and that’s actually what creates that chance for entrepreneurs is to get laughed [00:30:00] within the face. And the fascinating factor about being laughed in your face is half the time you need to be laughed at, and the opposite half, it’s the subsequent massive factor. And it’s all the time unimaginable on the time, with out wanting again on reflection to know, which path it truly is gonna go.
Cix Liv: I believe the toughest factor as an entrepreneur, for me, is with the ability to distill constructive criticism from assholes, proper?
As a result of typically the individuals who you assume are assholes, are literally providing you with good suggestions. And typically the assholes are simply assholes, proper? And I believe that it’s actually laborious to tell apart the 2 typically, proper? Like, the place somebody is providing you with suggestions, however you’re like, it’s similar to, it’s, it’s so private to you what you’re doing. You’re like, “okay, thanks, however fuck you”, you already know? You already know?
Preston Lewis: That’s humorous.
Cix Liv: Like immediate…
Preston Lewis: That’s my child.
Cix Liv: Yeah, it’s like your child. It’s like somebody getting into and being like, “man, your child’s ugly.” And I’m like, “nicely, it’s my child?”
Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah. “What’s improper with you?” That’s humorous. Yeah.
Ryan DeLuca: Then years later you look again at footage, you’re like, “man, that child was type of [00:31:00] ugly.”
Preston Lewis: That individual was proper. That individual was proper.
Ryan DeLuca: I assume, I imply we’re joking, however like, it kinda is true. You look again on the enterprise you had, like, once we first got here out with Black Field, the onboarding expertise was simply not good in any respect. However, like, we simply liked it a lot, after which once we first began getting suggestions, folks have been saying so many damaging issues. And naturally the primary response you wanna have is, like, “they’re improper” and like all this stuff. However then, you sleep on it and you consider, okay, we have to make these adjustments, and it’s loads of laborious work to make adjustments, however then you definately return and also you make these adjustments.
You then look again at your child, on the time, and understand, like, yeah, that wasn’t good. And, and hopefully that’s all the time the case. Hopefully you look two years from now and all the time take a look at what you’re at the moment doing and say it was not almost nearly as good as it’s now. In any other case, you’ve been stagnant and hasn’t transfer ahead. Haven’t listened to that suggestions.
Cix Liv: I believe listening to your customers is totally foundational, as a result of when you speak to your pals, they’re all the time gonna provide you with a constructive spin, or normally or typically you simply have a pal that shits on every part, proper? And so your pals are normally actually not a very good proxy for whether or not or not what you’re doing is sweet. And household is even worse. You already know, household’s both [00:32:00] all the time gonna be damaging or all the time gonna be constructive, relying on in the event that they assume you’re earning money or not. Proper? So that they’re, they’re horrible for suggestions loops. After which your co-founder, you may consistently be overly optimistic, since you each consider in the identical issues.
So that they’re normally additionally not a very good proxy. How do you get out of the bubble that’s your mind, into market actuality? And the market actuality normally simply exists with the those that use your product. And getting them to truly talk and inform you is, I believe essentially the most beneficial type of suggestions when you’re constructing a shopper firm. Attending to the those that like your product or don’t like your product and “why.”
Preston Lewis: Slightly comply with as much as that’s, do you will have any small suggestions so far as the way you go about intelligently amassing that suggestions? Or is it simply straight up scouring the Fb posts, establishing a Discord? Or do you will have particular issues that you just do, for instance, create surveys, do focus teams, or how does that course of go for you with amassing the suggestions?
Cix Liv: [00:33:00] In the event you talk with an individual, like, instantly, it’s type of just like the distinction between speaking to somebody by way of 4Chan and speaking to somebody by way of their face. Like face-to-face, proper?
when you’re on 4Chan, you’re gonna shit on every part. It’s nearly like straight from mind stem to face, proper? Like “this fucking is horrible, that shit blah, blah, blah, blah.” After which once they speak to you, they’re gonna be like, “nicely, I believe it’s best to, you already know, enhance this” or no matter. Proper? So, I believe it’s getting each of these views, proper? As a result of what you miss if you’re chatting with their customers are those that didn’t even care sufficient to speak to you, proper? Often the customers that you just’re speaking to are someplace between precise customers and professional customers, proper?
And also you’re normally getting not loads of the suggestions of the those that simply turned immediately, proper? They don’t wanna fucking reply to you. They don’t give a shit, they don’t wish to inform you what their expertise was. So that you’re gonna have a blind spot on that class [00:34:00] of potential customers, proper?
So for these, you’re gonna should, like, discover it anecdotally by way of like Fb posts or dangerous opinions, and because of this I might all the time chase the dangerous assessment folks. In the event you’re constructing that shopper product to know what’s churning folks from the start and, what enhancements can I make for these informal customers after which, the professional customers, ought to we cater to them or not, you already know?
So I, I believe that getting these three views and perhaps bucketing folks in these three issues, is an efficient approach to iterate in your product.
Preston Lewis: Superior. Thanks a lot for that Cix. In order that’s all for this episode, we determined to separate this podcast into two episodes as a result of Cix had a lot great things to share with you all. So be a part of us for half two of this episode, the place we’ll dig deeper into Cix’s upcoming XR mission and we’ll hear extra of his superior insights. We’ll see, on the subsequent episode.
Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Are you aware of anybody that must be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t neglect to e mail [00:35:00] us at podcast VR health insider.com and comply with us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You can even be a part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, hold creating and dreaming up the subsequent massive factor that can revolutionize the world of health.