VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 11: ICAROS

VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 11: ICAROS
VR Health Insider Podcast – Episode 11: ICAROS

Welcome to the newest episode of the VR Health Insider Podcast!

Immediately, we’re thrilled to have Johannes Scholl on the present, who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS, an progressive digital actuality train system that mixes immersive gaming experiences with bodily health. Johannes and his group have been pushing the boundaries of VR health, introducing a singular strategy to figuring out that has captured the eye of health fans and tech lovers alike. We are able to’t watch for Johannes to share his insights and the story behind ICAROS with you.

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Episode 11 – ICAROS

Preston Lewis: [00:00:00] Welcome to the VR Health Insiders podcast, for the creators who’re constructing the way forward for the VR and AR sports activities and health industries that can revolutionize the best way the world will play sports activities, work out and get match. Together with your hosts, preston Lewis and Ryan DeLuca, the founders of Black Field VR, who’re constructing the world’s first full health VR fitness center and produce many years of expertise from creating a few of the largest health know-how firms on the earth. They’re bringing collectively one of the best and brightest minds that can assist you and your organization succeed within the VR health revolution.

Welcome to the VR Health Insider podcast. Immediately we’ve got Johannes Scholl on the present who’s the co-founder and CEO of ICAROS. With a mission to empower people to attain their well being and health targets via using innovative know-how and immersive gaming experiences. Johannes, thanks a lot for being right here with us.

Johannes Scholl: Thanks for having me, and I sit up for this dialog with you guys.

Preston Lewis: So to kick it off, we wanna know what obtained you into VR and health within the first place? Form of how did your [00:01:00] private pursuits lead you right here?

Johannes Scholl: In order you possibly can think about, it’s fairly of a protracted story, however I’ll attempt to make a protracted story quick. I studied industrial design. So did my co-founder. And once I was nonetheless at college, I all the time knew that after I might begin engaged on my grasp’s thesis, it ought to be one thing round health. And that was additionally across the time once I met my co-founder Michael, who was already working a design company down in Munich.

And I used to be working with him and I’ve instructed him about my thought and I mentioned, “hey, you realize what? I wish to do one thing progressive. I wish to do one thing particular round health.” And he mentioned, “that’s cool, I want to assist you right here, however let’s not deliver the bench press 2.0 or one thing. Let’s deliver one thing actually progressive, that the health trade hasn’t seen earlier than.” He’s into health, we’re each into industrial design, and we mentioned, “okay, what’s essentially the most motivating health expertise that we might consider?”

And we mentioned, ” how would it not be if we might create the feeling of flying [00:02:00] while doing all your exercise?” As a result of we figured that having the ability to fly is a mankind’s dream, regardless of the place on the planet. Like, all people has dreamt of this as soon as, proper? So we got here up with this primary idea and the enjoyable factor actually is that this all happened earlier than digital actuality was a factor. It was earlier than Oculus. It was earlier than Oculus first Kickstarter marketing campaign. Nonetheless we had the concept that if this could work, it might solely work with digital actuality, proper? So in the long run, what we created again then was the longer term idea of what we thought how health train might look in twenty 5 years from now.

Little did we all know that only a couple months later, digital actuality did grew to become a factor, and t hat’s the place your entire story began actually.

Ryan DeLuca: So many individuals after they first consider like, “oh, what might you do with, like, you realize, gaming and health?” And the very first thing is, like, actually, actually fundamental stuff. Like, “oh, you may be having a private coach, or you may do that stuff you used to do in a standard fitness center, however now in a recreation or in VR.” Which simply feels just like the least [00:03:00] artistic approach to do it. Like, that is this entire new approach to do issues. Why would you wanna do bench press 2.0? Like, no person desires to bench press. ? Even people who say they like bench urgent, they in all probability don’t actually adore it that a lot in comparison with different issues. Why would you wanna do this versus, like, thrilling recreation and flying in VR?

Johannes Scholl: The factor was we needed to create a whole expertise and I feel that sounds acquainted to you. And after we began, we had this whole freedom of concepts, you realize? We had been pondering so freely, as a result of there was no strain on us. We didn’t consider it as a enterprise within the very first place. As a result of as I mentioned, we had been pondering like that is going to occur in twenty years from now. The enjoyable factor actually is when the primary headsets got here out, particularly the commercially out there headsets. For instance, the Samsung Gear VR. In the event you keep in mind? The place you probably did put your smartphone in, and you then would have it as a VR display screen. Samsung was considered one of our very first prospects. They purchased a few ICAROS items to set them up of their pop-up shops that they had been opening all throughout Europe to demo their new know-how.

I assume one of many first [00:04:00] peripherals for digital actuality that you may get. In order that they geared up the entire pop-up shops with our machines to demo their very own know-how. And that was nice. And that’s additionally why I preach that timing is such an vital issue while you launch a brand new product, launch a brand new thought. And we stood on the station earlier than the hype practice arrived and we simply needed to leap onto it, and that basically helped us very a lot to get going.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. And also you kinda alluded to it, the flying, proper? However inform us about your product. What precisely is ICAROS? What’s the expertise like? What makes it particular and why’d you determine to create it this fashion?

Johannes Scholl: It grew to become a bit more durable to elucidate within the final couple of years, due to course our portfolio has grown and we now have a variety of merchandise. I assume the one the place the whole lot began with, and nonetheless the expertise that we’re most well-known for, is the mixture of a core exercise and a digital actuality flying expertise.

So let me begin with that. And principally, it’s a rig that you’d enter in a plank-like place. However you [00:05:00] wouldn’t simply lay on there, however you’ll be capable to transfer round, actually, and by shifting your physique weight forwards and backwards and to the left and proper, you’ll be able to maneuver that factor. And we’re detecting your motions on the machine with movement sensors. And in the long run, we’re transferring your motions on the machine into digital actuality gameplay.

So it could change into, say a Superman simulator, no matter you’re doing bodily on the machine you’re doing in digital actuality. And it provides you a fairly intense core exercise, fairly intense shoulder exercise. However it is not going to solely enhance, like, your muscle energy, however it’ll additionally enhance your sense for stability. Your coordination, your response, performance of your core. So actually, it’s about say, mind-muscle connection. That’s why it’s additionally utilized in remedy and stuff like that. Perhaps we communicate extra about that later. So you’re in that planking place sporting your headset, together with your motions on the machine. You’re controlling the gameplay. Most of it’s about flying, but it surely doesn’t essentially must be flying; there’s additionally [00:06:00] underwater experiences, stuff like that.

I feel for me essentially the most spectacular ones, one is our digital actuality multiplayer. It’s referred to as ICARACE. So that could be a futuristic racing recreation the place you’ll fly a spaceship and you’ll race different pilots, as we name them, from possibly even different international locations, different elements on the earth, dwell in digital actuality. And that could be a very intense expertise. And people races, they final for ten minutes, proper about, and it’s a troublesome one. Every year we’ve got world championships the place we invite one of the best pilots which have certified within the on-line pre-season, after which we put them on stage, allow them to race one another.

After which one other one, which I consider could be very spectacular. We began engaged on these type of experiences two years in the past, proper about. We’ve a cooperation with one other firm right here from Munich, they’re referred to as Actuality Maps. They supplied us with panorama information that they create utilizing photogrammetry. And for instance, we’ve got now digitalized a few of [00:07:00] essentially the most iconic sceneries within the Alps. Like we’ve got the Dolomites, or we’ve got elements of the Swiss Alps or the German Alps. And you may actually undergo these type of landscapes. We’ve a Wingsuit simulator in there, racetracks, all this enjoyable stuff.

And you may expertise this in actual locations. Similar to Google Earth, however on the next high quality degree. There’s much more, however that’s type of what’s happening in digital actuality if you find yourself one of many ICAROS gadgets.

Ryan DeLuca: Properly, we talked about the place your product is right this moment, and naturally, persevering with to work and make it even higher, but it surely’s such an thrilling factor. Clearly you didn’t begin there, while you first began with the primary model to right this moment. What sort of learnings did you’ve from the start, that in case you might return to your self again in these days, you’ll inform your self?

Johannes Scholl: Many, many alternative ones. However, let me attempt with a few of the most vital ones for me.

So first, as I mentioned, my co-founder and I we’re each industrial designers. We’re each artistic minds, which is an effective factor and likewise a nasty factor. What I all the time attempt is, I attempt to visualize concepts very early, after which we additionally attempt to [00:08:00] prototype concepts as quickly as attainable to have the ability to take a look at them. And so, stroll the stroll, proper? No matter you visualize would possibly flip right into a actuality at one level, it might not, but when you don’t visualize it, if you don’t construct, it is not going to occur in any respect. In order that’s for certain.

Once we began off first, and I feel that was additionally with many different gamers within the subject of digital actuality, particularly. No person actually knew the place it could be going, the place it was heading. From our DNA, we knew that we needed to mix health and gaming.

With the primary video games we constructed, we didn’t have any expertise. We didn’t have any person suggestions. So I imply, it’s vital to know who’s the person, who’s the client? Who’s the person. Typically that’s the similar individual. Typically it’s not the identical individual, and you should have a buyer and you should have an finish person.

What do they anticipate from you? It’s that small line between getting person suggestions, implementing person suggestions, and listening to the customers. And typically additionally to not hearken to them and do your personal factor, as a result of possibly you realize [00:09:00] higher and you realize what’s forward, you realize, you’re one step forward of them.

So I feel that’s a wonderful line between implementing person suggestions and, on the similar time, be true to your self, as a result of who got here up with that idea? You probably did. So consider in your self as properly. Nonetheless, it actually comes right down to what I consider product market match. That’s for certain. You possibly can have the fanciest concepts, if the product is not going to work within the designated surroundings, you’ll not have a enterprise. Proper? I feel that was one thing, particularly within the first two, three years or so, the place we additionally needed to study rather a lot. Like, who’s the client? Who’re we constructing it for? In what method is it going for use? The place will or not it’s most useful? The place will it actually make a distinction?

How can we clear up the issues that our buyer has and stuff like that. That is quite common, however nonetheless it’s one thing that you must study initially. And the opposite factor, I feel that you realize very properly, since you did do that very properly while you began, and I additionally assume that we didn’t do the worst job right here, was being loud. And being [00:10:00] acknowledged and being, like, in every single place. And that’s one thing the place I feel we additionally did a very good job. So while you begin one thing new, you must be, you must be loud, proper? Go for the awards, go for the commerce exhibits, go for the media, go for the bloggers, go for social media, go for… take no matter you possibly can take to be sure that individuals will take discover.

I keep in mind after we first went to CES, we had been down within the Sands Expo at Eureka Park. And again then it was, you had these ten by ten cubicles. Tremendous small, like startup zoo, type of, tremendous vibrant environment, very crowded. And we introduced the ICAROS machine, the primary professional machine for the very first time. And the sales space was packed, and we had press, and media, and plenty of stuff was happening. For us, it was an awesome expertise. The primary present within the US, and all of this buzz happening. And we took rather a lot out of it.

Nonetheless, one 12 months later we went to the identical place, Eureka Park, similar ten by ten cubicles. And the one distinction was that this time we had [00:11:00] a correct video on YouTube and on social media, like Fb, again then it was. And it modified the whole lot. This time we had, inside one week, we had greater than thirty million views on our video. And it obtained viral and it was Mashable, and Bored Panda, and USA Immediately, and also you title it. It was the identical product, was the identical present, similar individuals. The one distinction was that our preparations had been rather a lot higher this time. Then additionally you bought luck and timing and stuff like that. That’s additionally studying. You need to be loud, you must be current, however you additionally have to be ready to make one thing out of it. However in the end, this story additionally has a draw back, as a result of that was, I consider, 2017? And I imply, what does CES stand for? It stands for Shopper Digital Present.

Electronics, sure. Present, sure. Shopper, no. We solely had this massive ICAROS promo that you’d purchase for 9 thousand again then. So, we obtained, I don’t know, seven, eight thousand emails, and we [00:12:00] had been three individuals. And we had been doing evening shifts simply to reply these emails. And you may think about that ninety p.c of these requests had been, like, “okay, can I get this for my front room?”

And we’re like, “properly, sure you possibly can, but it surely’s ten grand.” So, it actually helped us to drive substantial enterprise again then. Nonetheless these days with all, we’ve got the patron vary in line, and the net store and the whole lot. So in case you would have the identical thirty million video views and 7 thousand emails, we might make much more out of it. However that’s type of the tales you possibly can inform later.

Preston Lewis: For higher or for worse, as pioneers, we’re paying the innovation tax, proper?

Somebody’s gotta do it, gotta go on the market and blaze the path. And so we’re actually appreciative to others that do this. You guys included, as a result of after we began Black Field in 2016, we’d say the time period “VR health”, and their eyes would glaze over they usually’d be tremendous confused. They didn’t perceive. And so simply because ICAROS, and possibly Virtuix and plenty of these individuals have been within the recreation so lengthy with these viral movies, and [00:13:00] taking the dangers. It’s clearly been costly initially, but it surely’s pushed your entire trade ahead.

So, undoubtedly cool that you simply guys did that.

Johannes Scholl: I briefly talked about earlier, I feel that was earlier than the digicam was rolling. We simply obtained again from FIBO in Cologne a pair weeks in the past. I imply, that’s one of many greatest health and physique constructing exhibits on the earth. This 12 months they’d a chosen space for XR gaming, digital actuality, eSports health. 5 years in the past, unthinkable. Unthinkable. And now you possibly can see that. I feel that’s very cool. It’s nice that the organizers acknowledge the potential and likewise that they do one thing out of it. And now you possibly can actually really feel the assist of the trade and likewise the acceptance on the opposite facet, which is simply as vital. You can not solely simply push know-how after which watch for it. That’s not the way it works. So that you want the acceptance too. We all know that there’s potential in utilizing digital actuality or gamification typically in health. The exercises are extra fascinating, you may make them simpler.

You possibly can actually make them addictive, like an eSports expertise. In a great way.

Preston Lewis: [00:14:00] You simply made me assume that, you may virtually have, a triathlon-style occasion. Kinda like you’ve with biking, swimming, working, the place it could possibly be, Black Field exercise, ICAROS flying, a Virtuix working expertise. The place you may truly do that, triathlon, multi-event sort of an expertise. However with this futuristic know-how.

Johannes Scholl: I completely see this and we should always speak about this, as a result of I do know that many individuals on the market would love being part of this. I feel that’s additionally a imaginative and prescient, like having these XR Olympics factor, type of, happening.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s far more thrilling. There’s so many issues you are able to do in these loopy fantasy worlds you couldn’t do in a real-life triathlon. And extra accessible and may apply from residence. Like, there’s so many cool elements that, I imply, that’s for certain coming. The superb factor is individuals say, “oh, VR, like, I don’t need that. It’s this dystopian thought and I’m all on my own in my headset.” The place it’s, like, the precise reverse is true. Like, you possibly can have essentially the most social expertise with different individuals. And even simply, like, the Zwift-style stuff, it’s like social health and be capable to be there with different individuals. And the enjoyable, aggressive and cooperative. And eSports as we’ve seen, like, it could possibly be essentially the most social factor, which [00:15:00] the social a part of it’s actually what drives how a lot you care about it and the which means behind the actions.

So that you talked about, you bought suggestions at a few of the commerce exhibits and clearly from the press. What suggestions have you ever obtained from people who have used your product, and, you realize, any attention-grabbing tales or something that’s stunning that got here out of that?

Johannes Scholl: We’ve all the time been working not solely within the health trade, but additionally within the medical well being rehabilitation and remedy world. And we’ve got strengthened that work. And simply within the final couple of months we’ve got put in the primary ICAROS well being items, that’s our flagship mannequin, in hospitals, for instance. And in German rehabilitation hospitals. And it’s simply nice to get suggestions from sufferers utilizing our gadgets, as a result of for them digital actuality typically, and I feel our gadgets particularly, can actually be a recreation changer. In case you have an individual that will increase their strolling pace considerably after a stroke, via utilizing ICAROS gadgets, discount of spasms, enhance of whole physique composition, total happiness of their life and having a [00:16:00] joyful rehabilitation expertise. As a result of in case you’re going to rehab, this is usually a very irritating expertise for you, possibly typically with little progress, lack of motivation, ache and the whole lot that’s associated to it.

And I imply, in case you ask me for the best tales to inform, I’ll let you know affected person tales. Particular person success tales of sufferers. Whether or not it’s orthopedic, decrease again ache or if it’s neurologic sufferers. That’s one thing very rewarding to see.

After which final however not least, within the final years and now once more after Covid, we’ve got put in a few of our items in a few of the coolest locations on Earth. Like the highest notch medical retreats, the excessive finish 5 star resorts. Like, the locations the place the wealthy and the well-known go. You see the skilled athletes and the celebrities figuring out with it. In the event you look again a few years and also you mentioned, “you turned this into actuality”, that’s an awesome story.

Preston Lewis: That’s tremendous cool. I imply, after we began Black Field VR, plenty of it was based mostly on the truth that most individuals stop their health applications, proper? The adherence [00:17:00] to a health program is simply dismal throughout the board. As a result of why? It’s boring, it’s not very partaking, plenty of instances it’s not very social, it hurts. , possibly you don’t have entry to a fitness center or no matter. And so, it’s attention-grabbing as a result of it’s the identical factor with rehabilitation, proper? Folks go in, they get a surgical procedure, and we hear it on a regular basis from a few of the hospitals we talked to within the early days, however they principally mentioned, you realize, “not less than fifty p.c of individuals will drop out.” In the event you’re not adhering to a health program, it’s simply dangerous in your common well being, proper? It’s simply you’re not gonna be as match, you’re not gonna get the cognitive advantages and all these different superb issues that include figuring out recurrently.

However in rehabilitation, it’s even worse, proper? As a result of in case you get a surgical procedure and in case you don’t adhere to a program, you possibly can not bend your knee, possibly. You possibly can not lengthen your arm, proper? In order that’s, I feel the cool factor about this know-how throughout the board, whether or not it’s from health or rehab, such as you’re speaking about. Is that gamification and these recreation mechanics paired with these immersive applied sciences have the flexibility to drastically [00:18:00] enhance that adherence degree via the enjoyable, and the epicness and engagement. And as you each have talked about, having the potential to be rather more social as properly, so.

Johannes Scholl: The social side. We’re capable of customise the expertise and to individualize the exercise and create a custom-made rehabilitation journey. We’ve simply launched the software program that known as ICAROS N.E.X.T., Neuro Expertise Coaching, the place you as a affected person would enter the machine for the primary time and you’ll get your first, like, preset take a look at to seek out out what’s your present health degree. And from that time on, you should have custom-made particular person race tracks that may be designed only for you based mostly in your private skillset. After which the higher you change into, the harder, the more difficult it’ll get. So it’ll always push you to the sting of your consolation zone. After which over time we’ll see your progress, your particular person progress, that you would be able to additionally evaluate to others.

However in the long run, it’s your journey and you may be happy with your self and your progress. And the software program, it’ll all the time be as match as you’re and [00:19:00] it’ll all the time deliver you to your most and attempt to get one of the best out of you. And, I imply, there’s much more of potential in gamification typically, too. It’s not simply that it’s extra enjoyable. In the event you construct a very good recreation that’s given, however then what else are you able to do with it? Like actually driving the effectiveness of every session. That’s one thing we’re trying into rather a lot proper now. And it’s additionally for the longer term software program improvement, like particular person exercises, plans, rehabilitation journeys. That’s one thing we’re undoubtedly trying into rather a lot.

Ryan DeLuca: Nobody ever says they’re excited to go to rehab. ? Isn’t that the Amy Winehouse music? It’s like, “they tried to make me go to rehab, however I mentioned, no, no, no.”

However yeah. However no person’s ever like, “what do you’ve happening right this moment?” It’s like, “I’m gonna rehab, I’m so excited. It’s rehab day.” ? I imply, what we take into consideration rather a lot is so many issues in life that you simply wish to do, that it’s best to do, proper?

Since you ought to do it. You must learn these books. You must exercise, clearly, it’s best to eat, you realize, the best meals. You need to, like, pressure your self to do it. Or do some type of, like, incentive to make it so that you do it. Like, your physician’s gonna yell at you in case you [00:20:00] don’t do the rehab.

However, you realize, you go to regular rehab and clearly, like we talked about the identical as like a exercise, like, it’s not enjoyable. It’s time consuming. It’s painful. You don’t see quick outcomes, you realize? You don’t instantly go in there and see one thing. The place with video games you possibly can see quick outcomes. Like, you simply hit a brand new report on this or attain this new degree, and also you’re getting the rewards, and pleasure and there’s simply so many issues you may do.

What we actually assume is, it’s much less about to get individuals simply do what they know they need to do and take a look at to determine pressure that. However how will we make the factor it’s best to do one thing you wish to do.

Perhaps we’ll swap gears just a bit bit, study somewhat bit extra concerning the enterprise facet of ICAROS. , what’s the general enterprise mannequin? I do know you’ve completely different fashions going into B2B. You clearly have the house variations of what you’ve, however inform us somewhat bit extra concerning the enterprise mannequin and the way you’re working to make that profitable.

Johannes Scholl: Proper. So, typically, you may determine between these two branches. We obtained the patron department and the opposite one is the industrial. Simply traditionally we began ICAROS with industrial product, I discussed earlier. Like 10k for the {hardware}, after which we’d go into these high [00:21:00] locations, and a few of that is nonetheless the case.

Nonetheless, particularly after this occasion on CES, we seen okay, there’s some robust demand from customers on the market. So, we should always have one thing for them at hand as properly. Till the Covid pandemic actually hit, we had been on the trail to work on the industrial health and medical and people top-notch resort. So it was all industrial prospects, who all shut down via the pandemic. After which, we needed to, type of, invent a second enterprise mannequin. And that invention was the ICAROS HOME with the ICAROS CLOUD. And likewise we stepped again from solely making digital actuality content material to additionally having a cellular app that may run on the person’s pill or smartphone.

And that may work with some quite simple gadgets like our ICAROS CLOUD, which is an inflatable full physique exercise machine. That within the first place doesn’t work with digital actuality. So these days, I feel we’ve got much more customers on our cellular app than we’ve got in digital actuality. Nonetheless, we’ve got a bit [00:22:00] completely different enterprise fashions right here.

So if we’d discuss to industrial prospects these days, a lot of the income we’d generate with this sort of buyer is thru the {hardware} and software program lifetime license. So, for instance, if we’d discuss to a remedy heart in Germany and we’d arrange a tool for say twenty 5 thousand euros, for them, it’s actually vital to, like, have this one time fee after which have your entire system arrange after which go from there. The extra we glance into health and customers, the extra we glance into recurring income via software program subscriptions. Particularly our ICAROS app, it’s a month-to-month subscription. It’s nineteen {dollars} per 30 days. And you may select month-to-month, you possibly can activate or deactivate. So I feel it is rather honest contract that we’re providing right here and it’s always rising, that could be a wonderful thing about it. On-line subscriptions, they’re turning into an increasing number of vital for our whole enterprise mannequin.

As a shopper, you’ll purchase an ICAROS HOME or ICAROS CLOUD, you’ll get the unit and you then would look into the [00:23:00] subscriptions. However typically content material is king, and it’s extra, and an increasing number of concerning the content material. After I communicate of improvement these days, my co-founder, who’s main our improvement group, it’s software program improvement actually. And it’s additionally enjoyable to see, since you’re getting that suggestions so straight.

You launch a brand new recreation, you will note the acceptance charge. You will notice how lengthy will probably be performed. Are individuals prepared to pay for it? Will they invite others? Will they battle one another on the leaderboard? Stuff like that. I, in fact, love the net strategy, as a result of it’s like getting in shut contact with the top person. So, these are the 2 enterprise fashions for us.

Final however not least, via Covid additionally, we actually began with organising a web-based retailer and promoting on to customers. So we actually kicked off D2C enterprise, that we didn’t have three years in the past. The world has opened up once more, not solely in Europe and the US, but additionally Asia now. New initiatives are being began, health requirements, resorts. So it’s nice to be again on the map for them. But additionally, we construct up this complete shopper [00:24:00] universe and it’s nice to have this now, as a result of we are able to simply hold doing that with out letting go of the enterprise prospects. In order that’s type of what we’re taking a look at proper now.

Preston Lewis: As you’re saying that, it’s actually attention-grabbing to assume again, as a result of hindsight’s twenty-twenty and, fortunately issues have, type of, labored out in the best way we’d hope with, so far as VR health within the trade, proper? As a result of I imply, it might have taken a very completely different flip. Meta won’t have invested in it. HTC won’t have saved going with their gadgets and stuff, but it surely’s, type of, turned out for us.

However what it makes me take into consideration is, you’ve a cellular app, which you talked about has extra individuals utilizing it proper now. Whereas VR, it’s nonetheless early. It’s attention-grabbing, as a result of to me it seems like after we had been at Bodybuilding.com, it was the identical dialogue between cellular and internet. Proper? While you’re constructing software program merchandise. It was, like, we had like ninety p.c of the order… properly, I imply, clearly 100% had been, like, desktop. After which there was this second, Ryan and I keep in mind, the place it was, like, “wow, cellular is gonna take over all of this, we should always in all probability get forward of these things.”

And so it’s simply actually attention-grabbing that we’re nonetheless in that second in [00:25:00] time. I feel it’s vital for our listeners, as a result of early days was tremendous dangerous to get into VR. Now we’ve, type of, handed this hump the place it’s nonetheless early days, there’s nonetheless a ton of alternative within the trade. However we’re, type of, now on that precipice of, like, “are they actually gonna go away from utilizing their cell phones? Wouldn’t individuals somewhat watch films and issues on their cell phones?” It’s like, properly, wait a minute. Fairly quickly it’s gonna be hindsight, the place they’re like, “oh, everybody has a really cheap headset the place they cannot solely fulfill all their leisure wants, however they’re gonna be capable to do all of the health stuff.”

So, thought that was a very vital level that got here to thoughts, as you’re saying this entire, “proper now, our cellular app has extra customers, however VR, you realize, it’s choosing up.” It’s nonetheless a ton of alternative for builders and creators to have the ability to get into this.

Johannes Scholl: One of many main causes for us after we developed the CLOUD, and the cellular app and that whole system was, we try to reply three questions. As a result of let’s say, okay, it’s Covid and also you wish to promote product to the net retailer, like, what’s wanted.

And we mentioned, we wish to construct a full physique exercise machine. So it must be full physique, which the ICAROS gadgets, they provide [00:26:00] you core, they provide you shoulder, they provide you coordination. However for instance, arms or legs don’t actually play a serious function on the ICAROS machine. So we mentioned, okay, it must be full physique.

Then the opposite factor was, it ought to be appropriate for your entire household. So, if mommy buys it and he or she must justify, she will be able to say, “hey, the youngsters can use it, you should utilize it.” So it ought to be adaptable for particular person necessities. Then the opposite factor was, ought to be shipped in a single field through UPS. As a result of we’ll solely be capable to ship it via the net retailer.

Once more, the fourth one, and that was actually vital, was, we wish to have a really low entry hurdle on the technological facet. So we mentioned, realistically right this moment, three years in the past, like, what number of of our potential prospects do personal a headset? Not too many. What number of of those will purchase a headset, as a result of their need to get that exercise expertise with ICAROS is so robust. A few them. We’re promoting headsets rather a lot, not a giant deal. However what’s the machine, what’s the know-how that the entire potential prospects have already got? [00:27:00] That’s the cellular machine. So in the long run, that’s how we developed the system.

We sneak into the households of the individuals with out promoting them an excessive amount of further gear. Nonetheless, we’re robust believers within the potential of VR, and particularly there the place digital actuality just isn’t a nice-to-have, however it will probably actually flip into essential. And, I discussed remedy earlier. Additionally skilled sports activities.

With utilizing digital actuality, you possibly can actually make the exercises change into simpler. You can also make a distinction in how the individuals react. If we discuss to stroke sufferers, for instance, the immersion in digital actuality makes such a distinction for them, as a result of they, type of, depart the actual world and out of the blue the psychological impact performs a giant function.

Or I can ask the identical individual to lean to the best fifteen levels and maintain that place for a minute, and that individual will inform me, ” have a look at me, I’m not in a position to do this.” And the identical individual, [00:28:00] I’ll put the VR headset on and can ask to do this motion, as a result of the individual doesn’t wish to hit an impediment or they wish to acquire some factors, and out of the blue voila. It really works.

And I present that individual the video afterward they usually say, ” oh shit, that’s unimaginable.”

Preston Lewis: Wow.

Johannes Scholl: They, type of, really feel themselves in another way. It is also skilled athletes in search of these further beneficial properties. And so the cognitive side and the psychological side that you would be able to add in quite simple methods simply by placing a headset on. Low value, out there in all places.

I imply, that may change into an actual recreation changer. And I feel that the trade also needs to look into these advantages and make use of them as a substitute of simply copying what’s already there.

I’m curious, like, how your entire VR trade will develop, and when will we see these headsets and the releases of massive firms. I assume all people’s curious.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s an awesome segue. what’s attention-grabbing is, I completely agree. In the event you consider VR as only a display screen in your face, and it’s like, “what’s a giant deal? , like, I’d somewhat simply have a display screen [00:29:00] elsewhere.” However while you truly notice and see the research which have proven that, like, your mind treats it fully completely different. Everyone knows Thoughts Over Matter. And the Placebo Impact.

There’s many alternative issues that like you possibly can, like, virtually hack your mind to transcend your limitations. And simply, it’s an entire new world. After which as soon as individuals notice like, “whoa, it is a new paradigm for what’s attainable in all these completely different areas, that makes it method higher.” , not simply, like, 5 p.c higher, however probably 10x higher.

Johannes Scholl: Precisely.

Ryan DeLuca: That’s that psychological leap, I feel, that imaginative and prescient that after individuals get that, and that we and others are proving it out, that’s gonna assist to essentially drive that residence. And I feel, to only type of segue proper into that, right this moment’s VR health panorama, clearly with you and plenty of different nice firms which are constructing experiences and at-home and in-gym. With the know-how we’ve got right this moment, which is method higher than these early years, you realize, that we keep in mind seven years in the past. However it’s nonetheless not fairly the place we wish, however what do you concentrate on the state-of-the-art health right this moment? And extra importantly, the place do you assume it’s gonna go? {Hardware}, software program adoption for health and sports activities, extra particularly, within the [00:30:00] subsequent three to 5 years?

Johannes Scholl: It’s laborious to inform the place it’s going, however my want for the place it ought to be going is that we focus onto the advantages and on the massive distinction that digital actuality, the impression it will probably have. And the quick impact on coaching, particularly the cognitive, psychological elements. Anticipation, coordination, stability, like, full skillset that in any other case you’ll possibly solely practice while going snowboarding or enjoying tennis, and stuff like that.

Then making use of, actually, the group side, the social side. Being at residence, having a cool class with different individuals, regardless of the place on the earth. I don’t know the place it’s going, however I’m certain that it’ll not disappear.

I consider that the builders and the gamers within the trade, additionally the know-how producers, they need to additionally hyperlink and cooperate and inform one another the place stuff’s going. Know-how must assist us as builders to make this imaginative and prescient flip right into a actuality.

If that’s occurring, then I see an awesome future for digital actuality train with all [00:31:00] these completely different aspects and elements.

Preston Lewis: What I feel the cool factor too is, I imply, we’re all doing this for lots of various causes, proper? As a result of we’ve got a imaginative and prescient, but additionally on the finish of the day, that is gonna actually positively impression individuals’s lives.

It’s the mission to have the ability to assist individuals, in Black Field’s case, assist them degree up their lives utilizing this immersive know-how, by creating these addictive health experiences, particularly the habit. I imply, it’s all the time been this sort of like unfavourable connotation, however we actually assume that gamifying issues the best method can create wholesome addictions which are gonna allow you to. Like we talked about initially of the podcast.

Johannes Scholl: A constructive behavior.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, precisely. A constructive behavior that individuals follow and cling to that get all of them the opposite constructive advantages of that. In order that being mentioned, type of, segueing into what’s been essentially the most rewarding side of constructing ICAROS?

Has it been a buyer testimonial? Perhaps one thing you noticed within the medical subject? Perhaps it’s simply the pure pleasure of making a cool, progressive product? What’s been essentially the most rewarding side?

Johannes Scholl: There’s many alternative rewarding ones, as you mentioned. The pure pleasure of [00:32:00] making a related, radically new progressive know-how. And being acknowledged as a related participant in that subject, in our time alone is one thing that I consider, as a product developer and startup founder, is one thing that many individuals would possibly dream of being in that place sooner or later. So you have to be grateful for that alone. That’s rewarding within the first place, constructing one thing actually out of nowhere, and turning that imaginative and prescient right into a actuality. All in all, that’s an important and most rewarding side.

Nonetheless, in case you have a look at it extra carefully, it’s in fact the individuals utilizing the gadgets. Particularly the sufferers bettering on the gadgets, individuals altering their minds and altering their methods to dwell and being extra energetic, dwelling extra wholesome way of life. And telling you this on Instagram. These days, plenty of instances I actually simply repost person generated content material, as a result of I see individuals at residence, working with our gadgets, with [00:33:00] their household. And I didn’t ask them to publish a video of it, it’s simply they take pleasure in their exercise they usually take pleasure in figuring out with the techniques. That’s the second half that’s simply actually rewarding, and it exhibits you that the know-how you’re working with, the merchandise you constructing, that they’re related.

Final however not least, in fact it’s cool to see a few of the items being put in in a few of these locations the place I might by no means dream of. It’s not a lot concerning the individuals. It’s nice if celebrities use it, and stuff like that. However actually, like, having these amenities recognizing your entire potential this know-how has, and utilizing our items, putting in them there. And utilizing them as, to not brag with it, however actually additionally as like, “hey, look what we obtained, we obtained this ICAROS instrument.” We’ve this one set up in Switzerland on the Crimson Bull media world the place they are saying, “hey, this unit we’ve got right here, we can not change the gear, we can not change, we can not take your gear out right here.”

They’re simply utilizing it throughout, and over, and over, and over and each two years or so, you must go there and tighten all of the [00:34:00] screws and take care of the items, as a result of they’re used a lot. And I feel these are essentially the most rewarding elements of your entire journey.

Not a lot the awards. For the second, that’s additionally one thing you’re happy with, however actually, I imply, it’s the long-term success. And the long-term suggestions that basically retains you going and that motivates you additionally to take the subsequent steps. And that’s it for me, actually.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s simply this superb feeling typically while you’re like, “this was actually simply an thought in our heads.” Like, and it’s loopy that that’s attainable as people, so we are able to do that working collectively. However it simply this concept, which no matter that’s, you realize, in our brains and these neurons. And dealing collectively, after which hastily there it’s, and you then get that suggestions that you simply dreamed of. Of like, “that was so enjoyable.” Or “the rehab was rather more efficient.” Prefer it’s virtually bizarre. Nearly loopy that we are able to even do this.

Preston Lewis: Yeah, no. I imply, simply to piggyback on that as properly, I feel the opposite cool factor, particularly within the ICAROS case, is that, and I assume additionally with the Black Field case, is that the medical trade is beginning to acknowledge this know-how as an actual legit instrument for rehabilitation, [00:35:00] in addition to the health trade for all the opposite stuff we talked about.

You talked about if a medical college or facility is utilizing it in your finish, meaning they’ve in all probability gone via some fairly loopy rigorous testing. They’ve actually vet, I imply the medical trade has all of the compliance points and stuff like that, they usually actually vet the applied sciences that are available.

So I feel it speaks volumes to the legitimacy of this know-how, of your know-how, the truth that they’re truly utilizing that time and again of their amenities.

Johannes Scholl: Ultimately, actually it’s about, like, does it assist or not? That’s the straightforward query. While you communicate with sufferers. I imply, it’s just like the enjoyable and the whole lot, that’s good to have, however does it assist me?

And once more, that’s the place I consider digital actuality already is a recreation changer. And there’s plenty of research out there already on, Digital actuality, not solely with health, but additionally, like, going to the dentist and having the headset on, and like all of these results, the whole lot that’s happening in your mind in digital actuality that you should utilize positively.

That’s additionally my robust perception why digital actuality is not going to disappear, as a result of it already discovered its niches the place you realize it actually makes a [00:36:00] enormous distinction. You possibly can’t let go of it anymore. Now we’ll see the way it grows extra into different areas as properly by turning into extra reasonably priced, less difficult to make use of, extra arms on, and on, and on and on.

However it already has confirmed its effectiveness. So it’s a confirmed know-how now.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s laborious for me to carry this one again, as a result of I hold enthusiastic about, like, the rehab. It’s like, you realize, you’re saying just like the individual goes into rehab. And like, “I can’t transfer my arm this a lot.” After which, you realize, they’ve to maneuver outta the best way to a hospital, after which they present they really can. I’m imagining, like, you realize, an older individual in VR, they begin strolling. Pace is gradual. However they’re on this good, stunning surroundings. After which Cocaine Bear comes flying at them they usually should run away. And it’s like, “look, see? I instructed you you may. Look what you probably did.” You see individuals freaking out. That may not be a good suggestion. However, like, yeah hastily… “see how briskly you ran?” They usually’ll be like, “I’m by no means doing this once more.”

Preston Lewis: Now you make me wanna watch Cocaine Bear. I nonetheless haven’t seen it. That sounds superior.

Ryan DeLuca: It’s fairly enjoyable.

Preston Lewis: Properly and to piggyback on that, as properly, with the Black Field stuff so far as the research. We’ve completed a number of research with UCLA, [00:37:00] college research. And, man, the outcomes that the individuals within the research have skilled are insane. Like, we did one the place it was three months of exercises, which was about twelve weeks of 3 times per week doing a Black Field exercise. And it proved that Black Field’s expertise in comparison with, like, the standard cable resistance machine coaching, which was “the management”, resulted in higher decreased physique fats, elevated lean physique mass, decrease resting coronary heart charge, decrease systolic diastolic blood strain, elevated flexibility. Just about each, each metric you may have measured the Black Field VR exercise was higher than the standard cable resistance coaching. And that is all based mostly on college research, so we consider that is the way forward for health, because it sounds such as you do as properly. And the entire trade’s simply getting began.

Johannes Scholl: The trade ought to work collectively. The electronics producers, the software program builders. I imply, everyone knows particularly with sure prospects, how laborious it may be to essentially set up digital actuality gear at [00:38:00] some place after which get it working. Like, putting in is one half, however then have it being operated by the individuals on web site who could be, I don’t know, healthcare professionals, no matter. The better it turns into, the simpler the job will probably be for us. And in the end the extra sufferers, customers, will profit from it.

Preston Lewis: You and your group have been on the forefront of innovation on this area. So, we wanna know, our viewers desires to know what’s subsequent for ICAROS? Do you’ve any thrilling new upcoming developments or merchandise that you’ve within the pipeline?

Johannes Scholl: I discussed earlier that our focus actually is software program improvement. So I can inform, like, inside this 12 months or so, you’ll not see any new loopy {hardware} from ICAROS.

We always deliver loopy new {hardware}, however not for now. We’re actually specializing in each app and digital actuality software program improvement. Increase the group, making the person person profile extra vital for the person person. Like this itch, to always, like, log in. These type of results are crucial to us.

After which, we’ll conduct a number of research in Germany with [00:39:00] hospitals and universities round decrease again ache. We simply launched a research with the College Clinic in Heidelberg. They’re working with post-Covid, long-Covid sufferers. Most of it’s actually about motivation and getting individuals into exercise once more by utilizing digital actuality.

That will probably be very attention-grabbing to see the result of that research. After which, in fact, implementing all of those learnings into our software program, these individualized coaching applications will play a serious function. So, plenty of stuff happening within the digital world at ICAROS proper now.

Ryan DeLuca: I simply wanna say, it’s an honor to have the ability to have you ever on the podcast. In the event you would’ve instructed my fourteen 12 months outdated self, once I was watching Lawnmower Man, that I might discover and meet the person who truly make this a actuality and I’m gonna get match from it. Like, that’s, I might’ve blown my fourteen 12 months outdated thoughts.

Johannes Scholl: Thank Preston, Ryan, it’s our pleasure to be part of your podcast. And likewise following you, and your progress and course of all through the time, working with digital actuality and likewise having this worldwide connection [00:40:00] in Europe and the US, which I feel is a really cool factor. And it’s not a given, and in case you have a relation, it is advisable work on a relation. And that’s cool. So once more, it’s my pleasure to contribute to this podcast right this moment a bit. Man, I sit up for our subsequent dialog.

Preston Lewis: Superior. Properly, that’s on a regular basis we’ve got. Thanks a lot, Johannes, for becoming a member of us and sharing your group’s story, insights and fervour for creating the way forward for VR Health with our viewers. For any of you within the viewers, as traditional, in case you’d prefer to get in touch with the group, we’ll put all the data into the present notes, so make sure you test these out. Thanks once more.

Increase. Explosions. All proper. Let’s, uh, that was superior. Um, let’s do…

Ryan DeLuca: Are we presupposed to dab now?

Preston Lewis: Yeah, yeah.

Thanks for listening to the VR Health Insider podcast. Are you aware of anybody that ought to be on our present or have suggestions? Don’t neglect to e-mail us at podcast vr health insider.com and observe us at VR Health Insider on Twitter, Instagram, and YouTube. You can too be a part of our Discord channel. Till subsequent time, hold creating and dreaming up the subsequent large factor that can [00:41:00] revolutionize the world of health.